Your evenhanded approach is all too rare in this day and age, so thanks for that. Reading the takedowns led to delight far beyond what Andre's album had to offer - and, in 2025, I'll take that where I can find it, too!
Attention is the great under-discussed issue in this (and really all discussions about music rn) tho — it’s almost impossibly difficult to catch and hold the attention of an audience anymore, and the degree of difficulty is multiplied when the pieces last for 11 minutes or are instrumental or don’t have repetitive hooks arriving at regular intervals. listening is a skill, it takes time, receptivity, curiousity to develop.
Fran Liebowitz has a brilliant riff on art in the time of AIDS - the attuned audience quite literally died with the best of the creators, and the second tier got platforms they never would have. I found it: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3vR9OLxABI/
It's the money. The $30 for the vinyl. The $75 sweatshirts. The commodification of a rough draft just because he can, when he could've easily spent more time to turn these into real songs. We're being asked to reward hobby piano with hard-earned dollars and cents. If he put these 7 sketches on Soundcloud for free, we wouldn't be mad at all. We'd all be really proud.
I kinda have mixed feelings on this. Andre 3000 is, of course, free to release whatever he wants, as is anyone. I gave the album a listen and I thought it was horrendous but improvisational anything isn’t really my jam.
I also agree with critics and well established artists giving their honest opinions, particularly where they are accomplished musicians in the genre themselves. Where I draw the line is the gatekeeper-y element, the “you shouldn’t like this or you shouldn’t listen to this because it’s not good or they haven’t paid their dues”.
I long ago tired of people telling me what’s good and what isn’t and expecting me to listen to their opinion. So the criticism on its merits is fine but the “this music is crap” feels like a bridge too far.
"Does said dues-paying mean they get to demand expertise from all practitioners?"
Yes. Yes it does.
Because said dues-paying means they know what they're talking about when they discuss the art they've put so much blood + sweat into.
Andre' 3000 has no 'expertise' selling records, either; all that was done for him by others. He had a right-place, right-time hit one time; that's an achievement beyond reach for most people, but it doesn't make him Prince.
Now he wants to faff around with a flute, or piano, that's fine; but no one is under any obligation to pretend such faffing is artistically valid, or even minimally passable, if it ain't.
If Katy Perry decides her next record is gonna be her dinking around with a xylophone, that's her choice; but no one is gonna rush to defend her the same way.
And xylophone players who've paid their dues would have the right to laugh it out of the room.
I get this argument all day long. Actually not all of it was done for Andre tho — he was part of the development of the songs, wrote hooks and lyrics and who knows what else. some of those became huge. I think we’re just in a dangerous place when artists (*or Substackers*) can say “this meets the art test and this over here doesn’t.” even if they’re right every time, what follows is a chill. I want to hear where Andre 3000 goes next, whether he’s an “expert” or not!
I meant the "selling records" part was done for him; the timing, the placements, the thousand-and-five little things that go behind everything that becomes a "hit". That "hit" is the basis for a lot of received and log-rolled opinion that anything he does should be taken with a seriousness not afforded to others. And this piano-plinking experiment stretches the definition of "anything".
As far as *Substack* is concerned, criticism and judgements of what is "art" + what ain't, what's good + what ain't, is one of the things we do here.
If you're that easily intimidated away from making what you see/hear/think about by reading discourse around that on Substack, then you really didn't want to make that stuff at all.
If we start bashing people because “ They don’t know what their doing” than, where to start?
Your evenhanded approach is all too rare in this day and age, so thanks for that. Reading the takedowns led to delight far beyond what Andre's album had to offer - and, in 2025, I'll take that where I can find it, too!
Ha…my feeling as well. It’s a great juicy topic — where’s Stanley Crouch when we need him?
What I get from this is that the audience, not the players, have dropped in quality. That tracks for me.
Attention is the great under-discussed issue in this (and really all discussions about music rn) tho — it’s almost impossibly difficult to catch and hold the attention of an audience anymore, and the degree of difficulty is multiplied when the pieces last for 11 minutes or are instrumental or don’t have repetitive hooks arriving at regular intervals. listening is a skill, it takes time, receptivity, curiousity to develop.
Fran Liebowitz has a brilliant riff on art in the time of AIDS - the attuned audience quite literally died with the best of the creators, and the second tier got platforms they never would have. I found it: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3vR9OLxABI/
It's the money. The $30 for the vinyl. The $75 sweatshirts. The commodification of a rough draft just because he can, when he could've easily spent more time to turn these into real songs. We're being asked to reward hobby piano with hard-earned dollars and cents. If he put these 7 sketches on Soundcloud for free, we wouldn't be mad at all. We'd all be really proud.
Nice piece, TM. Now I have to re-read it :)
Thanks!
I kinda have mixed feelings on this. Andre 3000 is, of course, free to release whatever he wants, as is anyone. I gave the album a listen and I thought it was horrendous but improvisational anything isn’t really my jam.
I also agree with critics and well established artists giving their honest opinions, particularly where they are accomplished musicians in the genre themselves. Where I draw the line is the gatekeeper-y element, the “you shouldn’t like this or you shouldn’t listen to this because it’s not good or they haven’t paid their dues”.
I long ago tired of people telling me what’s good and what isn’t and expecting me to listen to their opinion. So the criticism on its merits is fine but the “this music is crap” feels like a bridge too far.
"Does said dues-paying mean they get to demand expertise from all practitioners?"
Yes. Yes it does.
Because said dues-paying means they know what they're talking about when they discuss the art they've put so much blood + sweat into.
Andre' 3000 has no 'expertise' selling records, either; all that was done for him by others. He had a right-place, right-time hit one time; that's an achievement beyond reach for most people, but it doesn't make him Prince.
Now he wants to faff around with a flute, or piano, that's fine; but no one is under any obligation to pretend such faffing is artistically valid, or even minimally passable, if it ain't.
If Katy Perry decides her next record is gonna be her dinking around with a xylophone, that's her choice; but no one is gonna rush to defend her the same way.
And xylophone players who've paid their dues would have the right to laugh it out of the room.
I get this argument all day long. Actually not all of it was done for Andre tho — he was part of the development of the songs, wrote hooks and lyrics and who knows what else. some of those became huge. I think we’re just in a dangerous place when artists (*or Substackers*) can say “this meets the art test and this over here doesn’t.” even if they’re right every time, what follows is a chill. I want to hear where Andre 3000 goes next, whether he’s an “expert” or not!
I meant the "selling records" part was done for him; the timing, the placements, the thousand-and-five little things that go behind everything that becomes a "hit". That "hit" is the basis for a lot of received and log-rolled opinion that anything he does should be taken with a seriousness not afforded to others. And this piano-plinking experiment stretches the definition of "anything".
As far as *Substack* is concerned, criticism and judgements of what is "art" + what ain't, what's good + what ain't, is one of the things we do here.
If you're that easily intimidated away from making what you see/hear/think about by reading discourse around that on Substack, then you really didn't want to make that stuff at all.
I'm assume you're referring to "Hey Ya!" but Andre has made many popular and enduring songs in Outkast,